TAdviser Interview: The head of DIT of Moscow Eduard Lysenko – about key lines of the IT budget and a firm position of the mayor
Information technologies became key management tools Moscow therefore decisions on their implementation are made by the mayor "quickly, accurately and without options". In an interview to the Chief Editor of TAdviser Alexander Levashov the head of capital IT department Eduard Lysenko told about priorities of digital development of the city, structure of the IT budget and features of Moscow in terms of informatization in comparison with other regions.
About the mayor's priorities
In 2018 Moscow won first place in the rating of the UN on development of the electronic government. In my opinion, it is a serious milestone. And how in the capital government treat this achievement? Whether are important for the city of a position in ratings?
Eduard Lysenko: For us the rating is a certain scale on which we can almost objectively (taking into account the rules "games" in these ratings) to compare itself with what occurs in the world regarding development of technologies of the smart city. Positions in ratings are not end in itself. Nevertheless we cannot deny value of ratings in formation of a certain vector of development of world leaders. And it too rule of the international community.
The first place in the rating of the UN on development of the electronic government is a recognition not only achievements of Moscow, but also professionalism of our specialists at world level. Yes, for us the high level of digitalization of Moscow is an objective reality. At the same time, ratings are one of narration tools to the international community about opportunities and achievements of the capital.
Several years we spent for finding suitable ratings, communities which are connected with them, institutional structures. After that we began system work – began to tell about our activity in language of those groups which prepare these researches and collect information for them.
The first place in the rating of the UN on development of the electronic government could be taken by Moscow still a couple of years back if such research was formed earlier. Further, I think, there will be more and more places where we as the city, we will be provided better because that volume and a range of technologies which are implemented in Moscow and are applied in life of citizens, are not present practically anywhere.
What objects for you were set by the mayor Sergey Sobyanin when he appointed you to a post of the head of Department of information technologies? What questions from the sphere of your activity are priority for the mayor?
Eduard Lysenko: For the mayor the questions connected with improvement of quality of life in Moscow – in terms of comfort of people, conducting this or that activity are priority. He considers IT tools as key because the city with the population of 12 million people, with a large number of movements during the day, a huge number of transactions in business, "contacts" of people with each other, business and the state, just physically cannot exist without support of IT, without end-to-end penetration of "digit".
Respectively, tasks which Sergey Semyonovich sets always proceed from top level managerial priorities. The key directions are a medicine, education, housing and public utilities, personal security, care of close people in a difficult situation, transport, and business in the city. Specific objectives, I will repeat, follow from these or those management decisions.
For example, the program of renovation includes a large number of subprojects which are implemented at the different levels, and all of them are penetrated by technologies. IT get into housing and public utilities more and more. The capital medicine develops towards digitalization: the scope of the electronic medical record increases, its filling and contents develops. In the field of education we will move further towards filling of "The Moscow electronic school" useful content and services which will be, including, to involve parents.
Your predecessor Artem Yermolaev was completely disconnected from work? Or continues to participate somehow?
Eduard Lysenko: Of course, we meet Artem Valeryevich to provide succession. Also we are always open for its valuable advice. But it, of course, completely departed from operating activities.
Change of the federal Minister of Communications in Russia over and over again leads to very considerable staff movements in the ministry. And how a situation in DITE of Moscow? How considerable will be changes on the leading positions?
Eduard Lysenko: At us happened in department and, obviously, there will be changes connected with product specialization or with specializations in competence centers as the external context changes, the new directions form. It is continuous process which is not connected with change of the first person of department.
If to speak about organizational structure, then at this stage there is a formation, first of all at the level of the mayor, the target agenda for several years ahead. And, how it will be formulated, perhaps, there will be some calls which will demand both new people, and a certain rotation in collective.
Whether earlier announced strategy of digitalization of Moscow which was provided in 2018, but how I understand is approved, not formally signed?
Eduard Lysenko: The document "Strategy" exists as a fruit of months-long joint development with business and expert community, citizens. But I would call this document the concept or a frame of reference more likely. And in this sense we were synchronized with Sergey Semyonovich. The community also shares these views and the directions. Work is continued. Soon Strategy, most likely, will be presented not in the form of a single document, and in the form of a regional component of the national project "Digital Economy" and as a program item of target planning of the Smart City state program for the next period.
About key IT projects
Tell, please, about the main directions of development of services for residents on whom you will work in 2019.
Eduard Lysenko: I already listed all those industries in which digitalization will continue. If to speak about inhabitants, then it is, first of all, medicine, education and public services in electronic form.
In state services we will move in the direction of the so-called predelivered services. We already hold all preparatory activities, and even the personal account on the Mos.ru portal since the end of 2018 already contains such elements - when a system itself selects to the user of service and in general content proceeding from its profile, a life situation, requirements.
What services, first of all, will be implemented in the form of such predelivered services?
Eduard Lysenko: Everything, as for children and the social sphere, of course.
What to expect in the direction of digitalization of health care, education, public security?
Eduard Lysenko: We continue to be engaged in informatization of hospitals. There are works on a binding to the electronic medical record of story with instrumental and laboratory researches; to services of end-to-end accounting, statements of recipes on drugs. A subject of telemedicine and different consultations – also in a priority. Work on application of elements of artificial intelligence, both for interpretation of the ECG, and for the analysis of mammographic and other computer pictures will be continued. Here we already have practices.
In education "The Moscow electronic school" will continue to develop. For January, 2019 the project is actively filled with content, the circle of its active users – teachers and pupils, producers of content increases. The next stage – implementation of the task set by the mayor is the movement towards an individual educational trajectory, with referral, and for seniors also with professional orientation services. At least, such intentions are. And for this purpose, in general, everything is ready. It was necessary to carry out pilot projects and to start this story in the presence of positive reverse reaction from users.
For the purpose of increase in level of public security city video surveillance continues development. Use of a system really leads to improvement of an ecosystem of security for inhabitants that pilots of 2017 and 2018 confirmed: within the Cup of Confederation, the World Cup and big actions, including elective. Actually using a limited number of cameras to which the video analytics was connected a number of offenders was delayed.
Eduard Lysenko: Including. And being and in federal search which could not be found long ago. The mayor made the decision – we will scale video analytics on all city. In Moscow for January, 2019 about 167 thousand cameras of city observation. From them about 105 thousand flows will pass through the system of video analytics.
These are plans for 2019?
Eduard Lysenko: Yes.
What number of cameras participated in pilot projects?
Eduard Lysenko: At a pilot stage about 1500 cameras were connected.
Whether some measures are undertaken to avoid abuses with cameras, for example, from officials, law enforcement officers?
Eduard Lysenko: All flow has special markers, and if suddenly information appears outside of a circuit, then we precisely know who when and where …
Do you know where there was a leak?
Eduard Lysenko: Yes. The relevant services easily find a source of leak and take necessary actions.
Such cases happen?
Eduard Lysenko: Any more is practically not present because are afraid.
What your priorities in internal informatization of the government?
Eduard Lysenko: They, generally, too did not change. There is a history of translation of paper documents in an electronic format. In particular, for example, we gradually pass to electronic documents at implementation of "cloud" accounting. The purchasing system passes to electronic contracts, delivery notes and on other electronic primary documents. Thus, we completely leave from printing versions.
In the field of construction actions for automation at which all contractors will be able to exchange electronic signed documents up to acts of KS-2 in the nearest future are implemented. In the field of financial statements on shared-equity construction, in the field of different receiving services from authorities of a construction complex documents with the electronic signature instead of a pile of papers are accepted.
From the second quarter 2019 we begin in the pilot mode order taking for establishment of rates in spheres of cold water supply and water disposal with the resource supplying organizations in electronic form. We are going to wage an application campaign thus. Rates for water, for heat and so on are appointed by the special commission. She considers the proving documents. Usually - it is a thick pack of papers.
How often these documents are given?
Eduard Lysenko: It is an annual campaign. The organizations only in one sphere of water disposal and supply for January, 2019 about hundred, in heat – about several tens more. According to the tariff legislation every year rates are reviewed, affirm, decrease or increase as it is necessary.
If to continue a conversation on digitalization of housing and public utilities, very accurate accounting is already implemented there, automation penetrates execution of tasks. We pass to work with requests of inhabitants. There is a dispatching center which accumulates requests from inhabitants. We gradually knot all this in a uniform guidance loop with the clear reporting for all levels - management companies, a justice, the prefecture, department of housing and public utilities, the office of the mayor and the mayor. As a result unambiguously treated clear picture should be built at any moment that the report was not from fields official reports, and means of objective control that is called.
Also a system in the field of ecology will develop. Together with the Moscow Department for Environmental Resources Management we changed the portal of Mosecomonitoring, it became more professional.
What there can be seen?
Eduard Lysenko: There is a lot of useful information for professionals about what air quality in Moscow, the description of measurement stations and so on.
Only for professionals?
Eduard Lysenko: Not only. Information is presented in the available form and for residents of the capital.
Whether air pollution level influences property sale in Moscow?
Eduard Lysenko: It is better to ask this question to sellers of the real estate.
How do you estimate application perspectives in Moscow of so-called end-to-end technologies?
Eduard Lysenko: It is possible to speak not only about perspectives. For example, at us for January, 2019 Big Data, machine learning is more and more used. Here example of an applied task. In November, 2018 the president signed the decree on creation in Moscow of the innovation cluster. Which should provide a large number of useful services. For example, search for the participant of a cluster of infrastructure – at first for researches, further – for prototyping, then – for creation of a prototype and so on. Respectively, under all this different types of resources – infrastructure, the certified commands, finance and tp are necessary. We prepare a prototype of service which will allow to create on the basis of unstructured information of different players of this market chains of offers for participants of a cluster. That it was clear, to a descent more than 200,000 participants of a cluster are expected, and all of them somehow can help each other. It will be a digital system in which all will be fixed, subscribe, be stored in a blockchain.
If to speak about end-to-end technology of a blockchain, we watched a set of offers, selected about 60 most viable ideas and selected from them five for implementation of specific projects in 2019.
How there took place selection?
Eduard Lysenko: We looked how the blockchain can be effectively used for these or those tasks in interaction or in the state departments, or the governments with the outside world - with citizens and business. A set of criteria was various. First of all we are interested in effect for the person in this or that type because the blockchain is quite power-intensive story. Respectively, it is necessary that the effect outweighed all future costs.
Can you give an example of the project which thus was selected?
Eduard Lysenko: For example, providing subsidies for small business entities. In a year it is possible to receive about 300 different subsidies. All process: from the application moment through assessment, receiving, control – all this should be in the automated type, and all chain should be transparent. Because the subsidies wishing much more, than provided. The transparency has high value. Account of subsidies will be kept using a blockchain.
About structure of the IT budget of Moscow
How the situation with IT city budget is? How will it change in 2019 in relation to 2018?
Eduard Lysenko: The budget increased. About 53 billion rubles are selected for informatization in 2019. It is about 10 billion more, than in 2018. Growth is connected with big projects. First of all, it is projects on informatization of hospitals. These are big infrastructure projects, software implementation. Naturally, it leads to increase in an opeksny part.
It is about development of EMIAS?
Eduard Lysenko: Yes, development of EMIAS in hospitals.
Including, probably, purchase of the equipment?
Eduard Lysenko: Yes, of course. Well as it is possible to be automated without computers?
What in addition to health care will involve big costs regarding IT?
Eduard Lysenko: The costs connected with video surveillance grow. It is also possible to note infrastructure of the educational organizations – what is connected with "The Moscow electronic school". Though there investments already decline, it is more - an operational component. About 8.5% the inflation growth since at us in expense structure and in structure of the consumed services of telecom operators and suppliers there are a lot of costs connected with exchange differences is put. So basic inflation about 4.5%, the rest only a rate.
How does this budget share by operation and development?
Eduard Lysenko: About 30% are a development, 70% - operation. But our experience showed that here it is necessary accurately with terminology. Let's say the same video surveillance and video analytics – explicit development, but at the same time has character of fixed annual expenses. In this sense when I speak "operation and development", I mean that managerial something goes for maintenance of infrastructure in its continued operation, and something – on investment into acquisition of additional qualities, functionality and so on irrespective of on what model it is bought.
For example, the video analytics is a service. Annual expenses are planned for 105,000 video cameras. But it is anyway development expenses because they will constantly purchase additional characteristics and qualities. There volume can vary. We will look, will be enough 105,000 or will not be enough. For January, 2019, taking into account experience, taking into account consensus in terms of security, apparently, that it is enough. Perhaps, it will be necessary less, then we will reduce number.
Also we have approximately identical expenses on City contact center of Moscow, but expense structure is gradually redistributed because in structure there are investments into development of such things as voice recognition. For example, such simple questions as readiness of documents by the room of the statement in MFC, obtaining information on debt, cutoff of hot water, transfer of indications of metering devices of water, are processed by the virtual operator. So the call does not reach the specialist. Though most of citizens, maybe, also do not guess because conduct normal, adequate dialogue with the robot.
In general, if to speak about transition to service model is a trend for Moscow?
Eduard Lysenko: Not tell that a trend. Rather successful experience.
Whether it is possible to say that more and more functions are transferred on outsourcing on model service? Or after all here the limited potential?
About the relations of Moscow with the federal authorities
It would be desirable to learn your opinion about experience of interaction with federal bodies, in particular, from Mintsifra. As far as do their vigorous activity or on the contrary deceleration of activity in connection with shift changes, influence you? Or you are independent of the federal authority in this case?
Eduard Lysenko: Our basic strategy – monitoring and the maximum participation in formation of semantic and legislative concepts. We are present at all working groups on digital economy where we consider necessary it, Moscow is always heard. The city with such level of development, probably, one of the few in the world. In our opinion, approach of the federal authority, should, consider achievements and experience of the capital and to help to replicate it in country scales.
Anyway Moscow will always move quicker. Just at the expense of the smaller territorial scale, more tough, accurate management. And we consider that our practices should be available to all. In this sense we for dialog in any forms.
As for as you say: the shift change, for us is a reality. We will work with those who are, to help to create all possible resources the correct meanings, but are ready to discuss and protect the position.
The voice of Moscow is much louder, than a voice of other regions. I remember how Sergey Sobyanin, in fact, blocked adoption of the new system project of the electronic government developed by the Ministry of Telecom and Mass Communications which did not consider opinion of regions. The document was not accepted.
Eduard Lysenko: The fate of this document is unknown to us. But, certainly, the voice of Moscow is heard not just like that. For this purpose there are all bases.
About replacement of officials with technologies
Whether the efforts and budgets directed to informatization to lead to reduction of number of officials of the Government of Moscow are capable?
Eduard Lysenko: I would tell that not it is the purpose. The purpose – after all informatization.
Whether there is a dependence?
Eduard Lysenko: In my opinion, you should not display artificially any dependence, at least for that simple reason that the number of officials does not grow several years. In general, it is necessary to understand whom to call the official. The teacher – same not the official, but he is the worker of the budget sphere. In Moscow about 800,000 workers of the budget sphere.
This digit insignificantly grew, and not because there were some parasitizing structures but because there were additional objects at which these people should work. So Moscow develops in terms of infrastructure, in it there are people from the budget sphere who work there. The number of officials does not increase, but also considerably to reduce it it will not turn out yet.
It is clear, that you should not lay off teachers and doctors. Perhaps, it is necessary also to increase their quantity. And if to speak directly about employees of the government, about employees of the ministries and departments what dynamics of their number?
Eduard Lysenko: I, frankly speaking, do not see any growth.
Whether you believe that they will be replaced by artificial intelligence or a blockchain?
Eduard Lysenko: I do not wait for it because I as the IT specialist understand logic and mechanics of development of artificial intelligence. AI which cannot develop further, than it will be programmed and will teach, further the data domain, of course, will never be able to become the full-fledged partner for the person who receives public service.
There are clear situations when using IT it is possible to exclude the person from a chain of routine transactions, and it needs to be done. And even not because it is necessary to reduce the number of people who are engaged in it but because information volume, taking into account the number of people, intensity of life in the city, the growing quantity of tasks, constantly increases. To people it is problematic it to acquire therefore for this purpose they need tools. But of course, it is history not moving away people from a chain absolutely. And making processes more effective. In a decision point so far, naturally, there is a person.
When think up as to give to artificial intelligence the state authority though in one country of this world, here then, probably, it will be possible to speak about the next stage. But I think that some time for it still will leave.
I.e. so far implementation of IT does not lead to reductions?
Eduard Lysenko: I do not see it.
About own motives to work in a public sector
Recently the First Deputy Chief of Presidential Administration Sergey Kiriyenko carried out a breakfast with representatives of the IT industry, and urged IT specialists to pass to work into a public sector, into state structures. Your career was just such – from IT-Business in the power. Why decided on this transition? What influenced your solution?
Eduard Lysenko: There were several factors, but key I would formulate as follows. When you work at the party of business, you live fiscal year, projects with cost efficiency, resource optimization. And what you should reach as the purpose of this or that contract, first of all it is tied to all this chain. But the matter is that one contract, one project does not give any finished picture of what needs to be constructed.
Being on the party of the customer, in particular, state, you have an opportunity to create intention, to systemically fix it, including is normative, to create ideally under this structure of the qualified customer and future operator, i.e. to finish case. And it is history not about one project, and definitely not one-two years.
It was important for me it is an opportunity, having gathered a team, to construct. It, probably, is similar to process of construction of the house – being on the party of the customer you build not the floor, not ladders, not SCS, you build the house.
The second factor is after all a command. I passed to work in a public sector for the small homeland – to the Yaroslavl region. There was a wish to form there such team which would perform this function institutionally. So that it just was a natural part of the state informatization of the Yaroslavl region. Well and, in my opinion, it normally turned out. It were two pacing factors and drivers of transition. Did not regret yet.
Whether you are ready to advise others to pass from business into a public sector? Whether you consider that people from IT-Business are necessary in public sector?
Eduard Lysenko: In my opinion, Sergey Vladilenovich proceeded from two moments. The first – as the person system inherently, he understands that the IT is always system approach. Well and the second, Sergey Semyonovich spoke about it recently, by the way, addressing rather young audience – it is impossible to do without "digit". The only effective way of management is "digit". In this sense it seems that it would be logical to suggest IT specialists to become government employees. In any case, in the part concerning digital transformation. It is not sure, for example, that such person as I, am capable to manage effectively, for example, the industry of trade and services in the city of Moscow. But the fact that I precisely can it is to help such people to manage more effectively.
About differences of Moscow from other regions
In general, if to speak about your previous career, its considerable part passed in the Yaroslavl region. Whether strongly Moscow differs?
Eduard Lysenko: Here the intensity in everything is higher: in decision making processes, in information processing finally, in communications. From it there are both costs, and opportunities.
The way of creation of the finished products is longer here?
Eduard Lysenko: Well.
In spite of the fact that scales it is more?
Eduard Lysenko: Yes. And now it became even shorter.
What it is connected with?
Eduard Lysenko: It, certainly, is connected with efficiency of decision making at the mayor. Here all very quickly and accurately. In this sense the price of responsibility is higher. Plus here high concentration of resources which allows to create and pack products. It is, of course, not agile in its classical option, but … I mentioned one prototype, other prototype. We on several in a week generate them, the certain finished ideas which then, perhaps, will gather in final IT solution for these or those tasks. So a cycle – intention, a running in, modeling, prototyping and an exit to a certain track – it is very short. Besides, because there are enough resources.
Moscow is a big customer, the big budget, a set of universities, companies. And what you will advise to do to regions which, naturally, have neither such attractive budget, nor such number of specialists? How to them to reach high rates of digitalization?
Eduard Lysenko: My experience in the Yaroslavl region as it seems to me, was quite successful. My many colleagues in other regions of the same size as the Yaroslavl region, did approximately same: we created the Competence Centers around which we built up long processes and projects. What is a lack of money? It just increase in terms and prioritization.
Regions will have an opportunity to use resources of the Digital Economy national program. Though the mechanism so far is up to the end not clear. On one action Andrey Nikitin, the Novgorod governor, told how at a limited resource they implement a large number of projects on informatization in medicine, in housing and public utilities, in territorial planning, in accounting of taxes. In general, approximately also we moved in Yaroslavl. Found a team of functional customers, created the Competence Center from several people, and gradually tightened resources. It is normal strategy.