TAdviser Interview: The chief information officer in resignation Alexander Selyutin – about the main problems of informatization of a public sector

Alexander Selyutin: It is a little difficult to me to speak about Chief information officers of federal agencies – I like that was not. Therefore I will speak after all, making a start from tasks of the regional IT minister. Though, it is sure that big (and even big) a part of problems and "diagnoses" will be postponed also for the Chief information officer of federal agency.

The first (and it key), a problem of the regional IT minister is determination of its area of responsibility: for what industries and tasks he is responsible in what "depth" – only in approval of plans or in complete IT providing the industry.

The second problem is degree of interest of the first person of the region.

The third – force of a position of the IT minister, profile departments often is "closer and more expensive" to the top management of the region.

Further I would deliver "charisma" of the IT minister. When you begin to centralize budgets and processes, from 20-30 million rubles of the IT budget, and 15 employees of IT department increase – to 300, 500, 800 million rubles and to 100-150 people. Here it is necessary already not only to convince that implementation and information technology development – it is useful and it is effective, but also to hold the won positions, to interest people.

Follows a complex of professional questions and qualities of IT specialists: systemacity of thinking and creation, personnel filling...

Alexander Selyutin: Yes, the role which will be given to an informatizator and, as a result, volume of the resources trusted it – the power, budgets and so forth depends on points 2 and 3.

Alexander Selyutin: Yes. Interaction with the center is divided into two main components: profile is an interaction from the Ministry of Telecom and Mass Communications of the Russian Federation, supervising issues of domestic state informatization, and industry – interaction with federal industry agencies.

Federal industry agencies did not get used that, for example, the regional IT ministry is engaged in informatization of health care. Therefore they diligently continue to send on top letters to profile regional department, to swear at it – thereby destroy the production (project) chains built below.

Alexander Selyutin: Question of legal risks – one of key. It is also divided into two big risks – information security in her common understanding and organizational and legal (it political) security. The lawyer is the second or third person who should appear in structure of IT department.

Alexander Selyutin: If to take my history in Komi, then development of IT structure went as follows.

In May, 2010 I found a job. The IT budget at that time made 3 million rubles, the state – 3 persons in Management of informatization of Administration of the Head of the region and 10 people in subordinated "Center of Information Technologies" (CIT) which was engaged in maintenance of Administration and State Council of the republic.

In June, 2010 the regional government approved the Concept of informatization of the Komi Republic. Its key postulates – uniform approach, a uniform technique, centralization of organizational processes, uniform service of the customer, project management, creation of a regional data processing center. The key directions – automation of a state administration system implementation of document flow and an analytical system) and the priority industries (generally the social sphere).

In August-September, 2010 CIT received the status of the operator of the electronic government. The first conditional centralized IT budget for 100 million rubles was created.

Further the key centralized projects – the portal of state services, a single system of electronic document management, the information and analytical and budget systems were started.

Since September, 2010 I had an official status responsible for IT in the region – regarding methodological and organizational support of processes.

Alexander Selyutin: Key point of September, 2010: all (!!!) payments of all (!!!) authorities, the IT anyway concerning – from cartridges and the legal-reference systems before purchase of the equipment – should be approved about mine. Here and answer.

Alexander Selyutin: On the first derivative – yes. But the most important – I began to understand how many money the region spends for IT.

Alexander Selyutin: When we went in such way – did not work. In July we requested all departments to provide us their IT budgets, but showed us only what was wanted to be shown. Farther I daily watched all August payments of public authorities and verified them with the stated digits. In August I told that a way of approval of budgets – deadlock. The actual purchases should be approved. In September the order that all technical specifications need to be approved with Management of informatization was prepared and issued.

Alexander Selyutin:Indeed...

Alexander Selyutin: In practice I received three categories of departments: "strong" (we do not want that someone controlled us), "smart" (ourselves know that it is necessary to us, you are not physicians / teachers / …) and "obedient"... The first two categories are those who had at that time IT structures.

Alexander Selyutin: "Break" all at once I did not set a task. Yes we also did not digest them. It was the inventory stage. But "smart" understood at once where everything goes. They for all five years and remained most difficult "partners".

Further the key order about transfer of all IT specialists from public authorities in CIT – about 40 people was prepared. From the status of government employees they were transferred to our subordinated organization.

Alexander Selyutin: Officially found 40. 100 more rates were in the republican medical information and analytical center (MIAC) - we translated them only in 2013. And "did not cope" with the Ministry of Education.

Alexander Selyutin: Rates of programmers separated MIAC into statistics and informatization. The first upon the demand of the Ministry of Health remained in the Bureau of medical statistics reorganized from MIAC, the second were transferred to CIT, to Department of implementation and development of medical information systems.

All transfers always went on one model: we take away as is – with the existing positions, salaries, tasks and so forth. For 6 months we have no right to dismiss the person, without his desire, to give it in addition a work / task. In 6 months on "risky" places (where people do not want to change) we do a duplicative circuit.

But, generally all in 2-3 months with pleasure began to be integrated into project and process circuits which were created. People understood that they can grow, develop, be engaged in much more interesting and perspective challenges.

Alexander Selyutin: Yes, everything is right. And to cover the designated zone, at once separated it into several segments which accustomed an IT circuit in process of extension of "muscles" (involvement of the personnel, implementations of regulations and so forth):

• infrastructure of the electronic government (data processing center, communication channels, information security),

• informatization of processes of a state administration (electronic document management system, information and analytical system, personnel system and so forth),

• informatization of state services,

• industry informatization,

• operation of infrastructure.

Alexander Selyutin: Without extensive area of responsibility we receive "scrappy" responsibility and, as a result, "scrappy" informatization.

Also it was important to show financial effect at once. As a result, after monitoring of payments, "the first victim" – the legal-reference systems (LRS) of Konsultant-Plus was revealed. We considered how many it was spent by state agencies and their subveda for purchase of SPS. It was succeeded to reveal such payments only in 25% of the organizations, but also it was the powerful amount of 70 million rubles.

Since January, 2011 the centralized contract for all 500 state organizations (100% of public authorities and podvedomstvennyz organizations) for the amount of 25 million rubles was signed.

Having seen a direct effect in 35 million rubles, the Ministry of Finance itself began to ask – what we centralize the following? Purchases of the equipment were farther.

Alexander Selyutin: Of course! For the sake of it all was also created.

Alexander Selyutin: Originally the equipment was bought "local assembly" approximately 40 thousand rubles for unit with the 1 year guarantee. We began to buy for 18 thousand rubles with a guarantee for 3 years, with "hot" replacement of the equipment within several hours. Since 2013 began to buy for 20 thousand rubles, but with SSD for a system disk. People "peeped" from delight. For 2012-2014 more than 3000 personal computers on the centralized model were purchased. Respectively, it is 60 million rubles of economy.

Still, of course, effectively centralized Microsoft. Licensing according to the Enterprise Agreement Subscription (EAS) program on all state agencies and their subveda as a result cost us 12-15 million rubles a year. At the same time "indulgence" hung in each organization. Economy from this contract is estimated approximately at 20 million rubles a year.

Alexander Selyutin: We approximately and made. Our EAS subscribed in Ireland since we separated Windows (just operating system and all connectors) and Windows + (with the office suite), and the Moscow office on signing of such contract had no powers. Windows + made 20% of the total number of jobs. Then in Microsoft were told that we said to nobody what is so possible [smiles] to we.

Alexander Selyutin: First put OpenOffice. Then I do not know any more, ceased to monitor it.

There was an interesting story with licenses Kaspersky. It to us was sold at 1500 rubles for the place. We for 2011 went on a centralized basis to Symantec for 330 rubles. Ooh, namayalis in a year, but, it was worth it – since 2012 we had Kaspersky already on 250 rubles for a workplace again.

Alexander Selyutin: It the Chief information officer should "poddavit" usually many blood and nerves. When we reduced the price of the legal-reference systems by 35 million rubles, at once for some reason became interested in me in FSB, check came from Accounts Chamber, and sent to the Head of the republic five anonymous letters that I steal and I do not allow to develop to small business in the region [smiles].

Alexander Selyutin: I here, of course, was lucky. The main specialty of Gayzer (Vyacheslav Gayzer is a Governor of the Komi Republic from 2010 to 2015) – automated control systems in economy.

Alexander Selyutin: He understood that in large organizational models to which also the system of a state administration, information technologies – the main disruptive instrument of optimization belongs. Besides, he understood that "scrappy" asistemny informatization will generate a heap of costs, but will not give effect. More precisely, the short-term effect can and will be, but...

By 2011 when I completely understood in orgmodel, economy and other, I was engaged just in creation of uniform methodology of informatization in Komi. I showed that different departments (property, culture, sport) in fact solve similar problems – accounting and management of these or those assets – buildings, lands, stadiums, the museums, exhibits, athletes, actions. Only it strives to make everyone the mini-system. At us to athletes Museums, etc. sell the information system "Sport", to the museums an information system. I told that methodological similarity of these tasks more than 70%. And technology – there can be also 100%.

In it, by the way, a huge problem which goes down "on top", from federal level. Now at least some departments began to fulfill standards of industry information systems, but not the specific systems. But, all this still shy, crookedly and asistemno. I, just, insisted on creation at the top level of industry information models, standards and regulations of their use, including at the regional and municipal levels. And then process could purchase much more structured and complete character...

Alexander Selyutin: Without will on top it would be much more difficult to be started. Here it is important to understand that the received information model of the industry is an also powerful tool for the regional Ministry of Economics, to you both indicators, and KPI here. We wanted to combine our efforts – for the regional Ministry of Economic Development to solve a problem of a strategirovaniye regarding the popokazatelny semantic description of the industry, and for us – to receive an information model. But here overstrained: work was done huge, however started slipping because of a lack of power and desire of participants.

And still, the register of the purposes of the Ministry of Economic Development and industry indicators in a uniform information and analytical system from this was as a result created (more than 5000 indicators on the different industries). Besides, the Workplace of the Head project – mobile application for iPad in which more than 100 different dashboards giving the answer practically to any question were provided from this was born.

Alexander Selyutin: Swore because understood that at Rostelecom "you otgryzt" nothing. Unfortunately, now we have no market of industry solutions, we have no Design office of the electronic government which could look at industry solution in a complex. We see how "successfully coming" on the territory, these or those companies "stolbit" for themselves a glade and further begin to secure "politically" it, not really worrying about quality of the product, its development, its technological effectiveness.

We have a catastrophic lack of IT methodologists of the state segment. As in the industries, and generally. There is a lot of "sales", and there are no methodologists. We faced it when began to write the industry strategy of informatization in the region...

Alexander Selyutin: Find the specialist who would understand, for example, data domain "agriculture", capable to qualitatively set the task (to create functional requirements to an information system) – it was very difficult.

Alexander Selyutin: The IT contractor ceased to spend money for methodologists long ago. They have writers (often - fantasts) who are capable to compile per day 2-3 thousand pages of the "informative" text on any subject. They can have technical architects who can quickly naprogrammirovat that "sale" will bring. But they do not have sense to hold "academicians". The fashion on "academicians" left about 15 years ago.

Worse than that, contractors are ready to order works at institutes, but there is no practician left. And we receive at the exit "papers", but not system projects or concepts.

In general, if to look at competences, them it is required two – organizational and applied (professional).

I will begin with professional is just technical specialists of different categories and methodologies – such contractors are enough and to tighten (to breed) them not really difficult if there is an understanding where.

But there are not enough methodologists – people who understand all IT landscape of the region, understand how "interweave" into it (as a braid as to a fleece) one more solution from what blocks of the existing landscape to bring together him that can not be enough how to fill with the correct sense as all this to tie with regulations. And, if with technical regulations of maintenance and operation everything is clear, then regulations of information filling, purity of data and other is the following level, and he is already beyond net IT specialists.

Alexander Selyutin: We raised a team of five people 4 years. On a grain. As a result closed all levels – from strategy and concepts to technical specifications and private technical specifications on specific objectives. But we did not leave (did not manage to reach) level of creation of a complex cross-industry information model of a state administration.

If to speak about a situation in general (not only on a situation in the republic), then we have "generals" – upper managers, there are contractors, but there is no intermediate commander's structure. From the word "in general". I when went to work to the region, thought that it will be difficult to find technical specialists, to resolve issues with salaries. But all this was a trifle in comparison with selection and education of managers of an average link.

The matter is that the head is first of all the person capable to make the decision. And here all who are capable to make the decision accept it here at the age of 20 years – to bring down. To Moscow, to St. Petersburg, to Nizhny Novgorod... yes at least to Kirov. There are those who could not make the decision. Of course, it can be repaid in tens of methods that and occurs then at work. And there do not leave girls yet. As a result practically we had all "lieutenant" structure from girls that imposed the specifics. Besides, not many of them initially were from IT – they just wanted to work and were capable to organize work and to make decisions.

Alexander Selyutin: Attracted from the youth. First of all, in 2010, I went to the Syktyvkar state university – to read master classes, to configure, select. In 2012 practically all sensible students of 3-5 rates already worked either in CIT, or for contractors.

The second – we wanted to display Komi in the status of the IT region. Began to create a cluster, laboratories, carried out summer schools of programming and methodology. As a result by 2014 we received rather large number of young fighters who were ready to solve these problems for smaller money.

Alexander Selyutin: No, we solved a problem in a different way. We had no people in departments, except 20 people in Committee of informatization and communication of the Komi Republic. Other 300 employees worked in the subveda of Committee. And we could resolve an issue with their salaries.

Considering the whole complex of actions of organizational and economic character developed by me, we could make the system of financing of actions for IT for 100% transparent. For each action we created financial and economic justification, in it registered all its costs – from stationery before purchase of the necessary equipment, from wage fund to external consultants. It gave the chance to adequately estimate a picture.

For example, began to create a system on sport. For 4 months we need the project manager for 20% of loading – receive 1 people/month, the methodologist – 1 people/month, expenses on application programming according to the average commercial offer, business trips – (local in pilot municipalities, to Moscow), etc.

Farther the Ministry of Finance and the Ministry of Sports estimated "value" of this project and if gave the green light, then we begin to form a project team. And here, naturally, it was simpler to us to hold both the 5-7 project managers, and the methodologists, "feed" each of which from 3-5-7 projects.

For two years we harmonized this model with the Ministry of Finance. And when they saw accurate justification of cost of each project, accepted our approach on accumulation of internal competence.

The only thing that we did not build at ourselves development company. CIT was not software developer. It is integrator, project office, the operating structure, design office, but not the developer.

Work for the state or for business company – the individual choice. Those who wanted to develop went to work to contractors. And to us – those who wanted to be engaged in coordination.

Alexander Selyutin: Beauty and complexity. Beauty of the idea that wanted to receive at the exit. Complexity and scale of a task in general. I like to solve interesting difficult challenges. I derive from it mad pleasure. And here both interesting, and difficult. Besides, I to the last thought that it is possible to shift a system. Make it more correct, perhaps. Effective, beautiful, convenient.

Alexander Selyutin: Very much. My income for 2009 – 8 million rubles. For 2010 – 4 million. Then more than 1.3 million were not. Data from certificates of the income of the government employee.

Alexander Selyutin: Until the end of 2012 the previous level managed to be supported at the expense of "fat". Then – all. It was necessary to be rebuilt. Yes, first there was not that it is difficult – unusually. Then – it is simpler when got used.

But if it is serious – salary in 100 thousand rubles for the person who should represent the region, receive guests and partners, eventually, to have a decent suit and boots, not shabby to holes, are a problem. Huge problem.

I was saved in many respects that from "last" life I had both suits, and cuff links, and shirts with silk thread. But by 2014 it was sometimes a shame to me with the type. Was short of clothes.

Alexander Selyutin: If do not want to raise wages to ministers, so would enter a form. It would unload 60% for family budgets [smiles].

Alexander Selyutin: It is very difficult question. Of course, when you "the correct vassal", you and "from a lordly table" a piece can fall. In the form of financing, at least.

Alexander Selyutin: Yes.

Alexander Selyutin: When I took an active position, for some reason our requests ceased to pass "on formal grounds". Well it so, trifles.

Federal money which distributes the Ministry of Telecom and Mass Communications – not most "tasty". They often should be closed formally, and it is rather dangerous. Therefore it is a two-edged sword – it seems and got a stone and kind of teeth not to break...

Alexander Selyutin: I began to specify constantly the Ministry of Telecom and Mass Communications that regions lack their regulating influence.

Yes, they issue each three months the new specification on SIEI. Yes, they persistently move deployment of GIS GMP. Yes, they abuse for non-alignment to hubs.

But if to look on top at the events, then it becomes visible that the Ministry of Telecom and Mass Communications has no accurate strategy. There are no coordinated plans. There are no priorities.

Alexander Selyutin: Below it looks so. You have an IT landscape. You understand finance and priorities. You understand weak and strong points – active / passive department, there is something or a naked sphere on informatization as far as the minister understands a role and sense of IT in his activity. And here on this field of times in 2-3 months there are explosions:

"Aaa!!! State services! Everything is urgent!!! No!!! Services!!! And UEC!!! Not, UEC of feet! Housing and public utilities! And medicine!!!"

Alexander Selyutin: And nothing that to start of the project on medicine in the country there were only 20-30 people who in general understood what is IT in medicine? And instead of one one or two years prior to start of the project to give a task to all IT institutes to prepare though some specialists in this area who would know what is a nosology, telemedicine, the electronic medical record we received war of clans in which as a result all was lost. Nobody counted only economic effect. More precisely, the done harm.

Concerning parallelism. Above it in parallel. And at me, below is the same project office, the same five methodologists and the same not rubber budget. They and at federals are not always supported, without speaking already about regions.

Alexander Selyutin: Step by step:

1. Place priorities

2. Work adjacent technologies (use already created, development of uniform technology standards for all industries).

3. Carry out preliminary deep methodological study of a question in Design office. Surely with attraction of regions, taking into account their distinctions, medicine in the Russian Ministry of Health and medicine on places are different tasks with different priorities, with different problems.

Alexander Selyutin: Unfortunately, the project office of the Russian Ministry of Health earned with regions only in 2014. Upgrade was begun in 2010, and in 2013 did not know structure of fields of the electronic medical record yet!

Alexander Selyutin: They at first should begin to study, and already then we should begin to speak about gravity. What do we have now? Company A learned to write children in schools of the city of B. Ur! Give ottirazhiruy. Oh, and in the city In everything in a different way (someone in a whisper).

On this subject there is a joke:

• I want to offer your enterprise the last invention is an automatic machine for shaving. The client lowers coins, pushes the head in an opening, and two razors automatically begin to shave him.

• But each person has an individual structure of the person?

• For the first time – yes!

And since the developer needs to manage to occupy a glade therefore the crude, rash, not tested really solutions are thrown out. Why GIS GMP cannot already fly up 4 years?

Alexander Selyutin: Instead of organizational and bank reform with technological support in the form of GIS GMP rolled out at all not thought over idea on the market. What is "penalties" in the GIS GMP format? It was talked of all charges. In principle, you should come into the personal account and see all your accounts – school, a garden, a circle, the travel card, a penalty, etc. And what we have? A crutch, of the size of the half-countries and cost in several spaceships.

Alexander Selyutin: We will call the first "professional", the second – "political".

With professional everything is more or less clear. There are regulators, there are requirements. Only there is no money [smiles]. And full deployment, for example, of a circuit of information security on a large state information system – it is very expensive, sometimes even creations of a system are more expensive.

Here, for example, EDMS cost us 35 million rubles in 5 years (implementation, licenses, support, development). Now in it more than 5000 people, 250 organizations work. If it is necessary "wrap" it in full-fledged complex information security, then the cost of these works will be under 100 million rubles – means of cryptoprotection, certification plus how many laid on costs for installation, replacement of computers (often security aids are more exacting, than the applied profile systems).

Alexander Selyutin: And non-execution – already real risk. Here it is also necessary to balance. "Play" with categorization of systems, make a large number of decisions in organisational arrangements (closing of offices, magazines and so forth). But this temporary solution.

Alexander Selyutin: From my point of view, for security in the state InformSystems it is necessary or to pass after all to the certified free operating systems with already built-in means of protecting, or to demand the special state price label from vendors. Well or to simplify requirements.

Alexander Selyutin: Let's say we will take a large regional system. Let's make the organizational decision that in it there will be no confidential data and data for office use. We will define the number of users in 250-300 though it is in open access in internal network and potentially – 10,000 users can do it. But we fixed digit 300. Then it is the system of category K3. We register model of threats and we say that the simple password of level of an information system is enough for ensuring its security. It's cool! Upon if it is 10000 users (or even more), plus more than 5000 different structured indicators about republic life – we gain synergy effect of data. And K2 minimum, and is already not just the password.

Alexander Selyutin: It concerns, of course, not only information technologies, and public administration in general, and this risk can be separated into economic and organizational components.

Economic is, first of all, "do not steal" (though as on me it is visible, and it not always helps). Pay special attention to quality of training of documents. Qualitatively describe all processes (an acceptance, responsibility) in the agreement.

In technical specifications leave from vague formulations. Yes, it sometimes simplifies life (the interface should be color), but also complicates (the prosecutor's office considers that the interface insufficiently color).

Everywhere there have to be regulations, everywhere signatures, including, the functional customer. Decisions should be made on the working groups. It strongly slows down and complicates life first, but then gives amazing effect in economy of forces, time and nerves.

And as I consider, the Ministry of Telecom and Mass Communications should make the corresponding recommendations, templates, techniques.

The organizational aspect – is more difficult. If at certain moments it was not necessary to make any decisions, then and heads would not be necessary. And if you made the decision, means there was a choice. And to prove that your choice is right, it is impossible. It is the biggest problem and in the state informatization, and in a state administration in general.

Example from life. Municipality. At the farmer land lease ended. He comes to the Village Council to prolong it. Speak to him – we cannot: tender,-syo. His first thought – extort. On the contrary! Lease is a solution for the benefit of the third parties. The farmer can answer – yes you that, I enclosed in this earth so much, and now somebody at tender will win it. It is answered – calm down, file a lawsuit against us, you will precisely win it. And the court us will oblige to prolong with you lease. And you with the earth, and I not under article.

Alexander Selyutin: Slander. When you systematize, centralize (consider that you "take away"), reduce the price, do is more transparent – there are enough tale-bearers.

Further the tale-bearer took on a fright. And it, without having sufficient competence and for fear – naplet about three boxes.

Further – it is simpler. Lack of technical expertizes, insufficient qualification of investigators in data domain (even not each state IT specialist will deal with automation of state services). As a result – the convenient, perspective, loud corrupt official.

And in principle, problems could be avoided by better preparation of the contract.

Alexander Selyutin: Not really... But, we will work on it.

Alexander Selyutin: Till November, 2015 observed. Everything worked. When "Do not cook a pot!" (my nickname in Committee) left, the activity strongly fell, but there was time to drag up tails. Now I do not even climb – there are no requests for consultations, and to specialists in general prohibited to communicate with me.

Alexander Selyutin: Would I like? – Yes-yes! Whether it is ready? – It is not sure …

Alexander Selyutin: Are characteristic, I would tell, for all 100%. But, of course, there are features. Recipes are applicable. I communicated with other regions much. Many our documents gave, received many guests – shared. Kirov, Khakassia, Novgorod, Tula. These are regions which practically took our model.

Alexander Selyutin: Frankly speaking to count the complete IT budget of any region as I made it in 2010, it with guarantee will be not less than 1 billion rubles.

Alexander Selyutin: Yes. 70-80%, and even 95% of this money are an operation. But we also began with it: took, optimized, the gained money started already on development projects. Yes, it is not simple. And in this case to be "gold chervonets" – the general favourite – it will not turn out. Yes, will constantly "water", and at all not honey or caramel. Yes, there will be also errors. One of the most difficult tasks – to get all bodies and all levels on the uniform center for service.

Alexander Selyutin: It is really huge risk. From 200 people who are now under examination in Komi, 150 I think, this PPP... Poultry farm, construction, farms... The majority of these objects were in the form of PPP. And there it is easy "paste" inefficiency, the interests of the third parties.

Alexander Selyutin: Began. And I very much wanted! I in general had an idea of self-sustaining IT. But, thank God, were not in time.

Alexander Selyutin: Of course, I trust. I believe also in the idea of self-sustaining IT, and in the idea of cheap IT, and in the idea of joint IT (when several regions combine the efforts – finance, people, resources – for creation of one system).

I believe also that in case of the correct coordination on top, we, at last, should not paint 85 times the same wall. And case even not in single industry solutions, and in qualitatively worked requirements and information models. And then the cost of development falls on orders.

Alexander Selyutin: I not really trust in a present command of the Ministry of Telecom and Mass Communications, unfortunately. And from below, from a position about which you speak I am not sure that it is possible to change something systemically. They are not ready to serious changes.

Alexander Selyutin: Yes, I will agree. Though as it seems to me, the first person of the Government of the Russian Federation it would be ready to support necessary changes.