Head of the Ministry of Digital Affairs Maksut Shadayev answered questions from the IT industry at the TAdviser summit

Maksut Shadayev: The issue of data management is complex, several lines can be distinguished here. And the first line is that the state has a lot of data. In this sense, the state will definitely switch to data-based management. Now how we have a reporting system - everyone fills some signs, and this, of course, is not supported by a "primary." From next year within NCSD (National Control System of Data) the big lake of data (data lake) which will allow to collect, among other, the depersonalized data from regions, municipalities will be created, to receive expanded analytics and not to torment departments with a large number of inquiries with different forms of the reporting any more. Thus, the state will form a data lake - a bill has been submitted for this purpose, which is under consideration in the Duma. The state will ask business to provide impersonal data free of charge in certain areas that are critical for the public administration system. Moreover, this process is not one-sided, because business will also get access to impersonal state data sets in order to use this data, develop its decisions, and receive expanded analytics. In this context, you correctly referred to the president's speech, because the president formulated the task even more voluminously, raising the issue of the human right to manage his data, which is formed about him in various commercial organizations.

For example - a medical record, you can go from one medical institution to another, taking it. That is, you manage your medical data as a citizen. But can you, as a client of some bank, take your financial history and transfer it to another bank in order to get the best conditions for lending, mortgages? This is a good question, and the president outlined it in his speech. Here we will look for some kind of mechanism through a digital profile. Now he works in one direction: banks can get access to his state data with the permission/consent of a citizen. This accelerates the process of filling out applications, conducting all kinds of inspections. For example, as I read yesterday, Sber gives a mortgage discount in case the client provides electronic statements, gives access to them. We are now discussing the State Market as an application of Gostech. In this case, a certain Marketplace of data will also appear, where the state will place its date sets. And the business may also place its data sets there - in order to allow other companies to buy it. In general, this is a new task. I think that at the beginning of the year we will present some kind of plan on it.

This is a very important question. If we take the president's speech at the conference on artificial intelligence, then, on the one hand, the question of simplified access to large, impersonal data is raised, and on the other, in each proposal we are talking about protecting the rights of a citizen, about his consent. It is clear that when big data is disclosed, there is a risk of making this data recoverable back. And we cannot allow this risk, here we must maintain a balance in the right way.

Maksut Shadaev: I think the middle of next year is already real. Let's start with state date sets, of course. Many of them are being prepared this year, and then we will discuss the conditions and procedure for placing business data.

Maksut Shadayev: This is a matter of legislative design, how it will be built. There are different opinion centers on this problem. One is that only the State can confirm the correct depersonalization of data. And in this sense, for business to upload data - this will be the only way to involve them in commercial turnover. That is, the corresponding data sets are checked by the state for the impossibility of reverse recovery, and after that they are placed on our marketplace for free access by commercial companies. Free and at the same time regulated, because we, as representatives of the state, will be able to further observe the use and distribution of these date sets. But so far this is only one of the possible designs. November-December will be held under the flag of discussing the general model of work with data, and this is now a key story, which was largely initiated by the discussion on the Unified Biometric System.

Maksut Shadayev: I can only talk about this subject with reference to the President's speech. He said there should be one state system in which primary biometric data will be stored. Accordingly, if you hand them over to Sberbank, MFTS or anywhere else, these primary biometric data can eventually be placed in only one state system. Of course, we understand that the business is now actively using and will continue to use when biometric identification working with, in and call centers ATMs even when buying coffee. For example, in our ministry you can buy coffee using biometric identification. And Sberbank it is clear that we cannot disrupt these processes. But the general architecture will look like a user or citizen surrenders his biometrics to a single state system, after which he gives the consent of a commercial organization to use the vector of this. And all biometrics commercial operators will not work with primary biometric data, but with vectors. In this sense, additional security will be provided. And at the same time, the user will always have the opportunity to withdraw his consent to access his biometrics to commercial operators. But this is a new discussion, which literally began the day before last Friday, because the president's decision will actually reformat the entire industry of work with biometric data, biometric services.

Maksut Shadayev: Competition in the market of state information systems is becoming less and less, but, as it seems to me, the reason for this is not in Gostech. There is an order of the president, there is a directive of the Government, according to which all state-owned companies must approve their digital transformation strategies based on Russian solutions, software and hardware. We see that in this regard, state-owned companies are increasing the volume of internal developments, incursions, and this is a significant risk. State-owned companies understand that they are expected to make significant breakthroughs, so they follow the model built by the leaders. That is, they will increase internal IT resources, primarily personnel. This affects the product, commercial market of replicated solutions and services, of course. State-owned companies get access to qualified highly paid specialists - especially if we are talking about state banks, but from the point of view of Gostech everything is exactly the opposite. The main task of Gostech is to stimulate competition, removing the dependence of the customer on a specific contractor, which for many years develops and supports, develops the system. After all, sometimes contractors receive 30-40-50% of the proceeds from one state customer, and in this sense, the Guest is called upon to level this history, to restore order with production culture, with architectural approaches. And, of course, this is our idea, related to the fact that if you sold the service or included its service in the Guest, you get free access to the government customer market. That is, our goal is exactly the same, then we will try to realize it.

Maksut Shadaev: One of the national goals is to quadruple spending on Russian solutions by 2030. Obviously, we will not be able to implement this in current budgets. We understand the competition for the resource that prices are rising, including for custom development. And we also understand that the budgets of both government agencies and state-owned companies should double at least in the next four years. Not everyone has this opportunity, but at least the position of the ministry is this. Given the fact that in many areas we have not reached a high level of digital maturity, it is simply irrational to remain in current spending indicators. Even if all current expenses are directed to Russian decisions, we are unlikely to advance in digital maturity, and this is also one of the country's national development goals. Therefore, our position is that IT spending in the public sector should increase, and our demand that this growth be at least twice.

Maksut Shadayev: One of the issues that we will be actively discussing now is whether we need to set criteria for state-owned companies regarding internal development, what share of total costs can go to internal IT development and in what cases, and what should go to market stimulation.

Maksut Shadaev: Yes, we started such a discussion. It is clear that this discussion is painful for state-owned companies. They believe that they should fully control the products and that the market simply cannot provide the necessary class and level systems, but somewhere there should also be a balance. We are discussing this, but I believe that we should limit some super-ambitions in terms of the development of insourcing. Especially where there are commercially successful products on the market. The criterion here will most likely be this: it makes no sense to develop technology if there is a mature market for such products in demand. But this is only the first part of the solution to the problem. I will not talk about the control figures for admission to universities - it is clear that we are trying to use all our administrative levers to give priority in the IT training system. And there, control figures for admission to budget places, in IT specialties grow significantly. But here it is also necessary to change the quality of education. Quantitatively, we will begin to graduate more specialists, but the issue of quality remains, and it is necessary to start from school. This year, the government supported our initiative: starting next year, we are launching a large high school training program, which will have the opportunity to learn programming languages ​ ​ for free, and in full-time format. It is clear that this will not succeed everywhere, in full-time format, but in urban agglomerations it is quite real. For example, the lyceum of the Yandex Academy is a very good principle when a digital company negotiates with the regions on its own. While these figures are insignificant, they are unlikely to significantly change the personnel situation in the market as a whole, but we are now looking at models. And those models that have proven themselves well since next year will have to launch.

Maksut Shadayev: This is a very difficult issue, and we have a position agreed with the Ministry of Education on this topic. It sounds something like this: such services can be considered as the basis for additional education for schoolchildren. It is clear that these services are all paid and in this case the state can only stimulate consumption where the necessary demand is created. This year we launched the corresponding program and so far we see that funds are not selected. That is, today there is an opportunity when a teacher can register with the system, register parents of children and choose from a whole set of online services. And we will pay for this with a big discount for the actual consumption of these services. Moreover, there are no obligations, KPI. Everything is determined by the readiness of the teacher, parents, including technical readiness for education as an additional form, additional occupation. So far, my forecast is that we will not choose the entire budget for this year, but the form itself is in great demand. But in no case, of course, - and this concerns the presidential order - this should not replace basic education at school. Only additionally at home to do, part of the homework can be transferred to these services, but subject to consensus: teacher-parents-children and technical capability. We see that young teachers actively choose this form. It is encouraging that we do not order our own educational services, the development of our own educational content for this...

Maksut Shadaev:... and we stimulate competition between commercial players, who thus gain access to budget money - indirectly, but in a free model. I believe that this model is very successful. I think that closer to mid-December we will summarize its results, it will be clear how much it took place. But at least what I hear now from the education system and from the educational services market is a model that has the right to life and, probably, next year we will continue all this.

Maksut Shadayev: Reducing security risks?

Maksut Shadaev: When we talk about Western proprietary decisions, then sanctioned we are all dependent. For example, a case with the University of Bauman, an inconsistency in renewing a license for Microsoft products under the pretext that they are developing for the Ministry of Defense. Based on this, everyone may soon be under sanctions risks. Open Source, of course, is, first of all, access to the large developer market. And reducing the dependence on one, the key provider that will write the code, and only he can support it. Every switch to a new IT partner is always a major stress. And, of course, Open Source allows you to reduce these risks, because in this case, the developer market for a specific Open Source solution is always represented by more than one company, there is something to choose from. And of course, because all this will then "indemnify," enriches the basic product. For example, our basic technology, it is called the platform for providing public services. We are faced with the fact that the quick launch of new services - especially at the municipal and regional levels, is due to the fact that they need not only a request form on the portal. We must give them a typical service in which they process these applications, make decisions. And, in fact, we lay down standard processes based on Open Source technology and give them to the regions, through our cloud. Several regions have already found teams on the ground that are ready to do additional castomization. And this is very cool, because in fact we do not become monopolists, but develop the market of partner companies that will begin to supplement, finalize, and reconfigure the product. This makes the regions less dependent on us.

Maksut Shadayev: The market does, and we gladly observe this process, participate in discussions. But here, since the strategy comes from the market, it is impossible to say that we have the task of releasing the strategy by a certain date. As soon as this strategy is complementary, we will express our opinion and confirm that we are ready at the state level to share the values ​ ​ and goals of this strategy. And move on, based on that. The state can approve any document that meets our tasks, but it is important for us that there is a common understanding within the industry.

Maksut Shadayev: We will demand such compatibility, but not simultaneously, the corresponding deadlines will be set. Now we are discussing this with the Ministry of Industry and Trade - how it should be linked, in what part. It is possible to require software developers to invest in support of Russian processors today, but only if we associate this with additional demand. Otherwise, this means for them simply an additional burden under the threat of exclusion from the register. And it is not very clear whether this will stimulate the market. They could spend this money on the functional development of their product, ensuring its better competition with foreign counterparts, and will spend on compatibility with Russian processors. Therefore, in our understanding, it is possible and necessary to demand this, but tied to the distribution plans of Russian processors.

Maksut Shadaev: I can't say now, because by the end of the year we must bring down the general model with the Ministry of Industry and Trade. We cannot help but support Russian processors, but we are opposed to the fact that now we are going ahead with the money of developers under the non-increasing installation base. Therefore, we will seek the right balance between these two directions. As you know, since May we have been responsible, among other things, for the demand for Russian iron, so now in this sense we have the opportunity to coordinate these two programs with each other.

Maksut Shadaev: Previously, we agreed on all purchases, and the plan did not make such sacred sense, because the Ministry agreed on the lion's part of the purchases of departments. Now we are coordinating only very large purchases, everything else is packed into a plan, that is, into a departmental program. If we compare the procedure for coordinating the plan with a departmental program, then, probably, the departmental program has become more complicated, but we have abandoned a large amount of procurement coordination. The second story related to the departmental plan is that everything is simple in the departmental digital transformation program: there are resource areas and certain indicators for them. These indicators are very specific: how many services should be brought to the public services portal, how the process should go, what control and supervisory functions should be applied, how import substitution should occur. With the Federal Treasury, we agreed on a plan that by the end of 2023, the main foreign proprietary components in the system will be replaced by Russian opensory technology, and colleagues are going to this. It is clear that these obligations, which they made, and costs are tied to them. Therefore, an additional financial control mechanism has emerged in terms of the fact that it is now very easy to track whether the required indicators have been achieved. That is, conditionally, whether we optimized these services, whether we translated supervisory functions into a risk-oriented model. And in this sense, of course, now a new reality is coming for the departments: it is important not only to spend money, solve current tasks, but also to fulfill the obligations undertaken. Otherwise, expenses may be considered ineffective, and this, of course, introduces a certain additional nervousness into the ranks.

Maksut Shadaev: We plan to create a Marketplace and there will naturally be a front part. I will not call it the open data portal, because it is a little wider, but, in fact, yes. What we are discussing now is the Marketplace of data, and, probably, there will be, among other things, those data that are commonly called open.

Maksut Shadaev: Yes.

Maksut Shadaev: A number of pilots are already underway, with Yandex we should soon launch authorization through ESIA...

Maksut Shadaev: Yes. Or Авто.ру, for example. Colleagues will announce themselves, but technically we have been working since mid-summer to make authorization appear.

Maksut Shadayev: Within the framework of these pilot projects, the most important thing is that we are developing technology that we coordinate with colleagues from other departments responsible for information security issues and so on. It is convenient to work with large companies, because this is a movement towards each other. And I hope that by the end of the year we will launch several such projects. For example, in the applications of Sber, a large number of state services are already available to us. We have a separate track with ESIA, a separate track with banks, and then, accordingly, we will provide this to everyone on equal terms.

Maksut Shadayev: Provided that the requirements are met, which are mandatory.

Maksut Shadayev: Our position: each FOIV should have a very qualified technical customer service, which leads the general architecture of the department, makes a technical examination of the quality of work. And just with us such subordinate institutions are already being created in many departments. Or the available divisions are complemented with this function - for example, in the Ministry of Labor of "subveda" Sotstech...

Maksut Shadaev:... in fact, this is a single service of a technical customer, but which determines at another technical level everything related to the creation of a social treasury. Question: Should they take developers? We do not limit, but on these salaries they are unlikely to find developers in large numbers to make such a system. Therefore, it is most likely that a developer will be behind each of the large projects, but it should be closely accompanied by the technical customer service. It's like a construction site - there is construction control and a developer. The task of construction control is to check the quality of work, completeness. And that's what we're stimulating. Moreover, we agreed with the Ministry of Finance that such customer services should arise in all departments - where the set of IT tasks more or less pulls on a large project .

Maksut Shadaev: It is always interesting with you.