Interview of TAdviser with the CEO RT Labs Mikhail Bondarenko
The CEO RT Labs Mikhail Bondarenko in an interview to the Chief Editor of TAdviser Alexander Levashov told about the new strategy of the company on transformation into the main of the system integrator of the Rostelecom group.
Bondarenko's
What is represented by RT Labs company as of 2016?
Mikhail Bondarenko: In Rostelecom there are a lot of different subsidiary companies. Including, there are also IT companies. Someone is engaged in development, someone acts as internal IT department. In 2015 we changed the development strategy of the company and together with the management of Rostelecom headed for conversion RT Labs in the main of the system integrator for Rostelecom group. The benefit, for previous years the wide experience and competences was accumulated – after all RT Labs one of the oldest companies in group, it was created 13 years ago.
The main objectives which stand before RT Labs it is operation and development of the infrastructure of the electronic government (IEG). With Sergey Borisovich Kalugin's arrival Rostelecom began to refuse gradually subcontractors in this part, transferring competences in group. Therefore passed many people from the companies contractors which were engaged in development and operation of IEP earlier to us.
Generally you speak about the people who passed from AT Consulting?
Mikhail Bondarenko: Including, from AT Consulting, from NVision, from other companies. In 2015 after I headed the company, we began to adopt actively competences at our contractors. Results, in my opinion, rather positive. Shareholders are happy too. In 2015 we significantly reduced our dependence on external suppliers. Also received total savings in expenses more than twice in comparison with 2014.
How this economy is measured?
Mikhail Bondarenko: In money. For example, earlier there were situations when some modules which developed third parties were not on sale to Rostelecom, and were leased, and digits were quite notable. Now we do this work independently, and so it turns out significantly cheaper.
It taking into account that you began to pay salary to employees at yourself?
Mikhail Bondarenko: We began to pay salary to employees, we began to undertake more tasks, constructed modern processes of management of a production cycle. It is about introduction into RT Labs of technology know-how and competences, about creation of technologies of development and operation which here were not earlier. Due to technology break we with rather small gain in the number of staff and expenses, could make great progress from the point of view of saved up competences, ownership of these or those products. We redeemed the intellectual rights to some modules from our partners and began to be engaged in their development and operation.
Can you give examples about what modules there is a speech?
Mikhail Bondarenko: For example, we increased competences on adapters to SIEI, created at ourselves the whole division on development of the Unified identification and authentication system of users (ESIA), and these are entrance gate in all infrastructure of the electronic government.
Who had rights to this system?
Mikhail Bondarenko: The rights to all products entering infrastructure of the electronic government belong to the Russian Federation on behalf of the Ministry of Telecom and Mass Communications of the Russian Federation, IEP is operator the Ministry of Telecom and Mass Communications according to Resolution No. 451 of June 8, 2011 Rostelecom on the basis of the Order of the Government of the Russian Federation of October 15, 2009 is the only contractor on operation of infrastructure of the electronic government and has the right to attract to rendering services in exploitation of collaborators. If you remember, about 3-4 years ago, before Sergey Borisovich's appointment the president of Rostelecom, 90% of works were performed by contractors. Now on the contrary.
I perfectly remember all this. And who was engaged in development of a Unified identification and authentication system on subcontracting?
Mikhail Bondarenko: The Unified identification and authentication system was engaged the small company under the name "Reak-soft". These are, in fact, natives of AT Consulting, of NVision.
And how you adopted competences on this product?
Mikhail Bondarenko: Since April, 2015 we began to attract in RT Labs of employees from the companies contractors participating in projects of the electronic government and created own special division on testing and so-called fund of algorithms and programs. Now this division is in Blok's structure of operation of products and solutions of our company.
What did we begin to do? All source codes, all programs, test procedures, documentation, completions of all contractors we began to accept through test procedures and verifications of codes. Develop on test environments, test, check source codes for existence of these or those errors, compile them, decompile, set, and, thus, to accumulate knowledge base which allowed to create necessary competences in the company.
Employed people - invited someone from the partner organizations, found someone in public market. Began to store at themselves all source codes, all documents, accurately and consistently to monitor works of contractors and quality of the transferred materials.
For 2015 we could refuse all partners, except federal state unitary enterprise Scientific Research Institute Voskhod - the only contractor on infrastructure of the electronic government. Because Voskhod is a jurisdictional enterprise of our main customer – the Ministry of Telecom and Mass Communications, we in work with them should consider certain nuances. At the same time we are ready to undertake a part of works and this contractor. Also we conduct in this respect negotiations both with Voskhod, and from the Ministry of Telecom and Mass Communications.
About what systems there is a speech?
Mikhail Bondarenko: In Voskhod there are SIEI 3.0, the Single system of normative reference information 2.0, the Situational center, the Stand of the chief designer, the Subsystem of monitoring of communication channels and a hardware and software system of the main certification center now. It would be desirable to agree with our partners about transfer of those products to us which directly belong to work of infrastructure of the electronic government. It will allow to increase significantly efficiency of services of operation in the conditions of constantly growing loading and decrease in public financing of the project. Now we conduct negotiations on the matter.
And how in these conditions you support IEP?
Mikhail Bondarenko: It is known that from the state rather tough budget policy is pursued. This year we managed to remain within the budget at the level of the last year's contract. But, unfortunately, at all our efforts on reducing costs of contractors, increase in profitability, we cannot brag of any outstanding marginality. The project, unfortunately, is slightly higher than the level of payback.
As far as I understand, Rostelecom expects on the fact that it will have an opportunity on model of public-private partnership to earn from infrastructure, on the fact that it will become operator of the electronic government …
Mikhail Bondarenko: Such idea was discussed in 2014-2015. Unfortunately, our approach was not supported though could already bear the first fruits
Nevertheless, now in the conditions of reduction of budget financing we with the ministry try to find some ways of commercialization of infrastructure of the electronic government. It is not a simple task as practically any idea connected with monetization of infrastructure requires legislative regulation.
What was revenue RT Labs in 2015?
Mikhail Bondarenko: We grew up rather strongly – more than three times. In 2015 revenue made about 1.5 billion rubles.
And at the expense of what strongly grew?
Mikhail Bondarenko: We undertook much more tasks, than solved before. Completely closed on themselves the architectural projects connected with the electronic government. Performed much more works, than did before.
So before Rostelecom transferred not all projects to you, and in 2015 began to tell much more?
Mikhail Bondarenko: Rostelecom always aims to save the most perspective, innovation competences in group. We received these contracts, only when showed the corresponding potential and competitive prices. It allowed us to enter in 2016 without uniform subcontractor except for Voskhod. Cost efficiency is available. We rather well grew up on EBITDA.
What order of marginality?
Mikhail Bondarenko: We try to do the minimum marginality which is admissible according to regulations of Rostelecom, about 3-5% in Labsa. At the project in general marginality not the biggest, but to us is possible to pull out it from unprofitability in which it appeared because of forced investments of last periods. Investments were made a few years ago to pull out "electric train" from permanent resource insufficiency. Now we have explosive growth of users and services.
Do you mean growth of registration in a Unified identification and authentication system?
Mikhail Bondarenko: Yes, number of users of the Uniform portal of state services.
The Ministry of Telecom and Mass Communications conducts the advertizing campaign of the portal of state services, growth is probably connected with it …
Mikhail Bondarenko: Certainly, the Ministry of Telecom and Mass Communications considers one of the main tasks promoting of EPGU. But growth of number of users requires additional resources for its support. We have literally for the first quarter 2016 more than one million new users. At the same time when the project began, users and the services rendered to them was on orders less. Together with growth of number of users, also the number of new services grows. EPGU provides electronic submission over 1000 public services based on federal executive authorities, over 8000 regional services and also over 15,000 municipal services in the interests of both physical, and legal entities. Therefore we receive not just growth on users, but also the explosive growth of number of transactions. And, it is measured by absolutely fantastic digits. Loading grows at enormous rates, and we this year should invest about 200 million rubles in expansion of communication channels between the IEP components.
But in your DPCs not only the electronic government?
Mikhail Bondarenko: The hardware and software system which is transferred to us by the Ministry of Telecom and Mass Communications under the contract is at the selected capacities. Yes, it is cloud infrastructure, but IEP lives on "cloud". And it requires permanent investments into a binding, because as you know, "electric train" was based on the principle of distribution of transaction flows to regional and federal segments. Therefore it consists of seven regional DPCs. They are connected by rather powerful secure channels of communication, and now we expand them even more because the number of transactions already became such that channels work at a limit of the opportunities. Therefore we should invest the means.
How many employees work in RT Labs as of 2016?
Mikhail Bondarenko: We have about 450 people. We rather actively develop, first of all, in regions because it is more profitable economically. Historically we had two separate divisions in Voronezh and Yaroslavl. Voronezh mostly specialized in operation, and Yaroslavl - in development. We already opened separate divisions in Novosibirsk, Yekaterinburg, Kazan, Samara, and now we work on Krasnodar and Nizhny Novgorod. At the same time, for example, in Samara we concentrated competences on mobile application development, including, and for infrastructure of the electronic government. Unfortunately, in many respects, creation of division in Samara was caused by problems of economic character at the contractor – the project turned out for our partners not the most profitable in terms of business, but it is necessary to pay tribute to colleagues – they completely fulfilled all the obligations as true professionals.
The previous contractor is who?
Mikhail Bondarenko: It was "Altariks". And we can only thank our colleagues for their professionalism and dedication with which they helped us to bring the project to the level necessary to the customer, and then to transfer him to RT Labs.
We have rather big development center in Kazan. However, its specialization not so much in the electronic government, how many on other our systems which we picked up. In Yekaterinburg too big development center, and in Novosibirsk – sales and project office.
In addition to the electronic government, our company last year headed for creation at itself competences on other information systems which Rostelecom uses. In particular, there is rather big direction on a regional segment of the Single state information system of health care.
In the fall of 2015 we, having rolled up sleeves, actively undertook this subject. For this purpose opened division in Kazan to be closer to our partners. Today in Kazan about 60 people who are engaged in generally medical subject work for us.
They removed from "Ah-Novusa" - the previous contractor in this direction?
Mikhail Bondarenko: I would tell that the smallest part of our employees - natives from "Ah-Novusa", the majority – from the market, from other companies which are close to medical subject. Now in an active phase there is a process of transfer of projects in problem regions - it is MRF "Volga"-Sarov, Nizhny Novgorod. In these regions not simple customer relations.
Heritage, generally...
Mikhail Bondarenko: It is necessary to do something with it. One of the purposes of transfer of this direction to RT Labs was just in solving such problems once and for all. We as subsidiary company are obliged to help our shareholder, despite of these or those difficulties.
Originally there the partner worked?
Mikhail Bondarenko: Yes, initially the partner who already left this market worked there.
Respectively, we were engaged in medical subject, saved up rather big competence, took away a number of regions. Not everything was smooth, certainly. There were some moments, nuances. So it turned out that there was it at the end of 2015, and since new year new wage rates, new rules of settlement at FOMS'OV with hospitals, with treatment and prevention facilities were implemented. All this fell down our shoulders, but we coped. And now actively we are engaged in Volga, the South and the Center. There too everything is not smooth, there are questions, but there are also perspectives for growth.
Do you have contracts for operation there?
Mikhail Bondarenko: Operation and development. We have a big contract for development from Rostelecom. So to say, accomplishment of developmental works on development of this regional system. Besides, we collect contracts for operation and for separate local completions from regions. Also we try to do it effectively. In our company operation, analytics, architecture, implementation are end-to-end verticals. At the expense of it we are able to afford to minimize expenses and as much as possible to use resource pools. So you have a contract on medicine – well, will work. If is not present - you will not sit just like that, to idle. We will send people to some other direction, and rather powerful service of operation allows to pick up everything quickly enough.
Now, for example, there is a contracting on development of the electronic government, but it is, in fact, in a stage of formation of technical specifications. And we transfer developers on the medical direction, or on other tasks.
Very big development got at us last year such referral as regional infrastructure of the electronic government. All of us know that in regions there are regional portals of state services which are operated by Rostelecom …
Do you speak about regional portals in the domain gosuslugi.ru?
Mikhail Bondarenko: Yes. About 55 regions very actively use them.
So how I understand, the electronic government remains for you the dominating project?
Mikhail Bondarenko: Federal part and. Also actively we are engaged in regional "electric train", there is a work on medical informatization, develop new subjects.
In 2016 we had the first commercial customer - absolutely external, not having relations neither to the Ministry of Telecom and Mass Communications, nor to Rostelecom. It is about the project with National settlement depositary on creation of an electronic voting system for shareholders. The national settlement depositary (enters into the Moscow Exchange group) appealed to us to help them to be integrated with infrastructure of the electronic government. We signed the contract, now actively we work.
In what will an integration essence with the electronic government there be?
Mikhail Bondarenko: The most important element in the electronic government, interesting to commercial customers, is a Unified identification and authentication system. Today this system is the only absolutely legal service of identification of the personality in Russia. Any person who wants to use him should come to department of Russian Post or office of Rostelecom with the passport personally and to tell "yes, it I, I want to be registered". The Unified identification and authentication system is already actively used in public wi-fi networks for identification and authorization of users.
Start up it not monetization, we do not take for service money from citizens, from operators, but it shows how infrastructure of the electronic government can be used for the market of operators, for non-state tasks. It, including, is rather big deposit and the Ministry of Telecom and Mass Communications, and Rostelecom in business development in the country. At the same time we give also guarantees that the person who became authorized, identified that for whom issues itself. So we in this context also support national objectives of formation of certain barriers, obstacles for terrorism, we help our law enforcement agencies with these or those questions because a situation, to put it mildly, difficult.
In addition, we start together with the Federal Tax Service a hub for operators of electronic document management now. The essence is that now there are a lot of entrusted operators of electronic document management in the country - about 50 organizations. At the same time their business is constructed according to very simple scheme – each operator has some key customer and all small and medium enterprises which work with this customer are forced to be connected to this operator of electronic document management …
Do you mean the companies like SKB Kontur?
Mikhail Bondarenko: Yes, Tensor, SKB Kontur and so on. Rostelecom in 2015 received, by the way, the status of the operator of electronic document management too, but for other purposes. We should start this year the feed gear of declarations of individuals via the portal of public services and start functionality of submission of accounting records by small and medium-sized businesses via the portal of state services. Now we actively study this subject with FTS and from the Ministry of Telecom and Mass Communications.
And so, in FTS suggested market participants to create this hub of exchange of documents which would allow our enterprises not to be connected to each of operators, and to provide an opportunity for these operators of electronic document management to exchange invoices by the principle "all with all". And they have democratic choice – or each of them signs, say, the relevant agreement on exchange with other operator, or all of them join this or that hub on information exchange.
Due to own investments we developed the corresponding hub, and on April 1 started a pilot project. Piloting will last till July 1, we have already four partners who were included with us into the project. It is clear, that as the operator Rostelecom, and RT Labs - the system integrator which develops a product will act, provides connection to it, system integration and the subsequent operation of this solution.
So such point of exchange of traffic turns out?
Mikhail Bondarenko: Point of exchange of invoices, electronic documents, and, verified for Tax administration, legislatively significant. And in addition, we study still a number of projects with state bodies. You know, now goes decrees, orders, orders quite a lot. Did you hear about the 13th decree of the President? We already presented the offers to Tax administration which it will be obvious the contractor of this decree.
Do you mean electronic ZAGS?
Mikhail Bondarenko: It is called the E-REGISTRY OFFICE, but it is not absolutely correct because in the 13th decree a lot of things are stated. Electronic ZAGS is what lies on a surface. Moreover, we already for the benefit of the Ministry of Telecom and Mass Communications did this system a few years ago. It, however, was not started for the reason that necessary legislative changes were not accepted, but now life changes, and solutions remain.
Let's return to an issue of regional expansion and opening of offices of developments. Based on what they are created?
Mikhail Bondarenko: In Samara we employed 3-4 people from the company which was engaged in mobile application for the electronic government. Took several people from the market. Now there small command, about 10 employees. They are engaged in mobile application development.
Mobile applications – a demanded product, it is necessary everywhere. Besides that we finish this subject for the Ministry of Telecom and Mass Communications, there are additional tasks which we implement, including, for the benefit of Rostelecom. The Smart house, the Smart on-door speakerphone, Driving which allows to keep track of its location is about applications of type, to close mirrors, to frighten off hooligans. Together with colleagues from V2S-and B2B-blocks of Rostelecom we study plans of creation and an output of such products to the market.
With Samara clear. And in other regions there is the specialization too?
Mikhail Bondarenko: For example, in Novosibirsk the front office carries out tasks of a preseyl and the sales of a wide product range of the company connected with development of regional medical information systems, solutions on "The safe city", the systems of the fixing of violations of traffic regulations automated by a photo and video. The division gives methodological support to customers and performs functions of support line of solutions and products of the company for users in all territory of Siberia. In a command involved specialists who understand products and are familiar with specifics of local market.
And attracted from where?
Mikhail Bondarenko: Same the market - we look for, we invite. We became rather visible, significant, actively we grow, we have no catastrophic problems with contracts, with liquidity. At the same time I try to adhere to rather conservative financial policy not to swell on expenses, nevertheless to be guided more by income. Our policy on deduction and personnel development too rather flexible. So we try to invest money in people, we try to train them, to raise, work for long-term motivation and loyalty.
In 2015 carried out the mass assessment of all personnel, developed a matrix of skills and competences in which considered all our employees, designated - to whom as how to develop. It allowed us to create the relevant training plan which was started on January 1, 2016.
Conditionally speaking if the employee at us the programmer on With, we also develop him on With, we do not try to make of him the cellist. If the person is engaged in relational databases, we also develop him on this subject. Rather big project on transfer of infrastructure of the electronic government from Oracle DBMS on freely extended by software – PostgreSQL is now planned …
Very long ago it is already planned...
Mikhail Bondarenko: The Ministry of Communications is rather heavy to explain to the Ministry of Finance assignment for this story. The Ministry of Finance looks at it rather conservatively, as well as it is necessary to the tough and pragmatic financier. He asks – why to pass with Oracle to PostgreSQL? And than it is better? In the long term we will pay less? Well same in the long term, and money is necessary now. And so on. Therefore we dig up own resources on this project of migration - we will lower operating costs and by that due to marginality we will block these investments. But the project can be implemented only at the unconditional consent and support of the Ministry of Telecom and Mass Communications.
So you want to make it at the expense of rostelekomovsky money?
Mikhail Bondarenko: We consider also such scenario.
It is about all systems in a circuit of the electronic government? In the same place under everyone the database?
Mikhail Bondarenko: Yes, we want to migrate all. There is no sense to translate something one. If you want to reach effect if you want to increase competences, and at the same time do not want to develop in parallel two competences on relational DBMS, it is necessary to translate everything. And differently what sense?!
Besides, for the purpose of optimization of our costs we try to improve quality of operation by creation of portals via which people can receive answers to the questions. Because of growth of number of the departments connected to the portal of state services, the number of services anyway arise temporary problems in their use. Respectively what is done by the user? He cannot receive service and at once brings the request to service-desk. With growth of addresses also our costs – on call processing, on interaction grow. Therefore we try to start such now Wiki which could minimize load of the first and second support lines of users.
We want to make it at own expense, due to own investments and to extend this competence. It will be a product of Rostelecom which we will use for systems in group perimeter because it really minimizes costs.
So one of your main tasks - to reduce costs due to internal optimization and similar tools?
Mikhail Bondarenko: Including …
Finishing a question of Postgres at what stage there is this project now?
Mikhail Bondarenko: We finished systems analysis, prepared the investment project, understood how many at us will leave on it time and forces. In the nearest future we will take out this project on investment committee of Rostelecom. Money for migration it will be required not so much – about the same how much annual support of Oracle costs. At the expense of it we will be able already to perform migration in 2016 and to increase at ourselves competences which then we will offer Rostelecom for migration of other systems with Oracle on the free software we will sell to external customers. Our external customers who have money with pleasure will purchase these services, competences.
To what time will you be able to return investments due to failure from license fees?
Mikhail Bondarenko: The payback will be about two years. Licenses for Oracle are purchased very long time ago.
I.e. only the technical support is paid?
Mikhail Bondarenko: Yes. About 21% in the terms price list.
From the cost of licenses?
Mikhail Bondarenko: Such price. There Database Enterprise Edition with Partitioning option with RAC is used …
On PostgreSQL we had many discussions. Now we study and we approve this subject. I hope that we will be taken both by Rostelecom, and the Ministry of Telecom and Mass Communications, and we will be able to implement this important and interesting project.
You speak, can finance this migration from the means …
Mikhail Bondarenko: We can, but we all the same should convince our shareholders. One of important arguments consists that we want to increase competences of PostgreSQL further to transfer to it those systems which have no relation to the electronic government. For example, we already do a hub for FTS on PostgreSQL. It is necessary to look forward. It is clear, that how our relations with the western partners developed, anyway, I do not think that Larry Ellison will reduce the prices.
The prices grow with growth of dollar exchange rate?
Mikhail Bondarenko: They grow, but I can tell that Ellison always had expensive prices.
Whether you are going to participate in the state cloud project?
Mikhail Bondarenko: We participate in this question, we help our colleagues and partners. But in Rostelecom group there is a certain separation of tasks and responsibility. Directly we are not engaged in clouds.
NDTs is for this purpose created …
Mikhail Bondarenko: In the Rostelecom Group the Data storage center company is engaged in it. We actively cooperate, we work. Than we can, we will help those. The main task not so much to create a cloud. It is not simple to create it, but it is at least clear how. The main task – to fill a cloud with products. And in this question we actively interact with them.
And to bring clients...
Mikhail Bondarenko: Of course. One of the ideas, as far as I know, is in replacing the import software which at us at all on computers - document flow, Office - with domestic. And if domestic also from "cloud" to provide this to software, then it is possible to do without workstations, theoretically, in general.
Thin clients.
Mikhail Bondarenko: Of course. Respectively, it cheaper, both more simply, and more conveniently, and will create rather large number of jobs in Russia. But the problem is that it is necessary to invest a lot of money in creation of these products, and now with resources not so well. On the other hand, crisis to us allows to master the new horizons. I consider, it is positive.
You told that at you strategy was approved recently. In what its essence?
Mikhail Bondarenko: Our strategy was approved in the fall of 2015. It is aimed at the development of the company as system integrator. Development vectors are defined. It is medicine, transport, housing and public utilities, the electronic government. There is a federal and regional part.
Unfortunately, we do not manage to cover everything at once therefore are forced to move a step-bay-step. We already have certain backlogs on a subject of transport, housing and public utilities.
Merge to NCI somehow keeps within your strategy?
Mikhail Bondarenko: We handled this issue. I personally participated in negotiations. After carrying out a number of meetings and negotiations the management decided to disperse and work independently for some time. Work independently and look at results later half a year, year.
I.e. in 2016 you should not wait for any transactions?
Mikhail Bondarenko: I think that I am not present. Anyway the transaction requires enough serious negotiations and solutions which in one day are not accepted.
How do you estimate competition level among the IT companies in regions?
Mikhail Bondarenko: Big integrators which there historically worked leave because it is unprofitable to remain. Recently talked to one of our oldest partners. He speaks and, there are interesting subjects, but not all, something is unprofitable. But we, working with Rostelecom, increasing these or those competences, somewhere blocking resources at the expense of adjacent projects, somewhere reducing our operating costs, we can afford it and we do not leave without support of our colleagues and business partners in regions. In it one of main objectives of creation RT Labs - to help parent company to earn money. At the same time we do not pursue a margin and we can approach an issue of pricing much more flexibly, than any our competitor. In it our advantage.
I.e. you take away on yourself customers from former partners of Rostelecom for the reason that these partners leave regions?
Mikhail Bondarenko: We try to be more competitive, to offer to our clients the best terms, than our partners.
So you compete with them?
Mikhail Bondarenko: Of course. Rostelecom is the public company, it cannot just purchase something at RT Labs. It needs to carry out procedures. For example, in Kurgan played tender on operation of a medical system. Our competitor forced us to reduce the price to zero. For us it is losses, but we went to it consciously because it is the market, and we want to be there. We want to be the best there, and are ready to offer the best to our clients. We look at everything strategically – with a view to long-term cooperation, without chasing momentary benefit.
Yes, for us it is certain losses, but in the company the considerable know-how is acquired, costs are minimized and at the expense of it we it is more profitable. For example, only at the cost of workdays we dropped by 15% in 2016 in comparison with 2015 due to diversification of production and an exit to regions. We lowered ours of Costa, and we continue this way - we will lower them even more.
For example, in Moscow I strictly forbade to take people. Each candidate who in Moscow to us comes has a personal interview with me. As much as possible we pass into regions because there salary is much lower, than here. Plus we try to use certain measures of support which to us are provided by the state. For example, last year obtained accreditation of the Ministry of Telecom and Mass Communications as the IT company. It allowed to cut down significantly our expenses since our main costs are the salaries, awards and so on.
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