Jet Infosystems: CRM from Oracle not all on teeth

TAdviser: The market of CRM is complete the most different offers: here both shrink-wrapped software products, and SaaS, and complex systems to which customers are not risen without consultants. With what do you work?

Mikhail Burmagin: This issue is resolved depending on the value of the company, scale of the project and tasks standing during implementation. Our company conducts work mainly with big customers regarding implementation of CRM. We consider, and it is not unreasonable that in the solution of difficult CRM tasks complex approach is preferable. Which we offer clients, in passing resolving the issues concerning infrastructure providing, service maintenance (both before, and after start of a system), questions of information security and others. Jet Infosystems the full range of services – from consulting on projects and developments of strategy before directly implementation of applied applications provides, sales of the equipment and a software setup.

Vladislav Anufriyev: I would add that we work with Oracle Siebel CRM, and in this segment shrink-wrapped software products are not our direct competitors. In most cases it is about adaptation and setup of a system under features of business of the customer, i.e. the preconfigured products here not always approach. As for cloud products (if to take only SaaS), then they are strongly limited for big corporate customers by whom CRM is considered, first of all, as the solution which helps to build and support a customer loyalty chain. They need the customized products with powerful functionality – since simple segmentation of marketing offers, finishing with formation of instruments of cross-sellings and difficult programs of loyalty. As a rule, SaaS of CRM is comprised by only basic functions. Nevertheless, the CRM system can be unrolled in a private cloud, for example, or based on IaaS-services of provider, but your question, obviously, not about it.

Mikhail Burmagin: Yes, and except increase in loyalty there are still rather big blocks of functions which are responsible for the customer interactions concerning sales and service. They are very important for the large companies and require to themselves close attention. Here plays a role and data processing rate, information arriving on different channels and the speed of reaction of the company to a request. If to take the block of functions on automation of sales, then service rate of retail clients is also important. Such high requests are characteristic as of retail, the sphere of banking services, and, for example, insurance companies. For them it is very important to spend as little as possible efforts of specialists in unit of time that allows to reduce significantly operating costs, at the same time to service clients quicker and more qualitatively.

TAdviser: Could you characterize more precisely the scale of the CRM projects in which you are engaged?

Mikhail Burmagin: On average CRM projects borrow on time from 4–5 months to 1–2 years. Projects are really big and long, consisting of several stages when dozens of people are involved in process, and without accepting it in accounting of infrastructure specialists, service maintenance, information security specialists and integration of systems. Respectively, in our company more than 70 people are engaged in implementation of CRM - it is only an implementation team – plus a command in the service center, and these are 350 more house keepers.

Before the last sharp modifications of exchange differences the average project budget regarding directly implementing solutions made tens of millions of rubles. The license component of projects, i.e. acquisition of the rights to products, can reach $1 million and more for big customers.

TAdviser: And on number of users?

Mikhail Burmagin: The number of users is measured in implementations of such scale by hundreds, as a rule, these are 300–700 users. During one of the last large projects the CRM system on more than 2000 users was implemented, respectively, the vendor offered the unlimited license. It is, for example, about automation of one of the largest retail banks of level top-10. You can imagine what number of employees in such business should have access to the CRM system and is active work with it.

TAdviser: At what stage of the company it is necessary to resort to the help of integrator? Whether it is possible to solve all turnkey problems at one contractor or you should not "keep all eggs in one basket"?

Mikhail Burmagin: I consider that it is necessary to resort to the help of integrator as soon as possible, it is desirable at the first stages of the choice and making decision on implementation. Regarding automation the customer needs to be defined what system he needs to implement for the solution of relevant tasks: CRM, ABS or some else. Already at this stage it is reasonable to attract integrator to IT audit and consulting.

The matter is that it is not enough to purchase a system and to implement it: from it there will be not enough advantage. It is necessary to understand what business challenges she will help to solve. So, CRM is expected problems of a certain class – you should not "do ERP of CRM". Many clients are mistaken when choosing a system, expecting much more from it a circle of opportunities, being guided by marketing descriptions. If the customer comes to the consultant at early stages, then the consultant defines that it is necessary for the specific customer or, on the contrary, it is not necessary and does not approach.

There were such cases, and more than once when asked us for the help in the choice of the CRM system, and as a result, after the analysis which is carried out by consultants, it became clear that it is not necessary to the company at all, and, for example, custom completion regarding acceleration of adoption of requests and customer appeals is required. Before us the purpose just to sell a system is not necessary. It is important to try to help the customer to solve his problems, to reduce costs and to receive benefit eventually.

TAdviser: In what case can the company cope with the CRM project by own efforts and in what – it is obligatory to address serious integrator?

Vladislav Anufriyev: Good question: whether the company can cope with CRM implementation. For its solution it is necessary to be guided by common sense. As a rule, doing something for the first time, you step on all possible rake, and not the fact that only on one circle. Unfortunately, especially if we speak about CRM projects of scale above an average, miracles do not happen. At best the company will spend many times more time for the project than if specialists with wide experience were engaged in it. In the worst – it just will not receive desirable result. I risk to seem sharp, but before drinking a handful of tablets, it is better to consult to the doctor nevertheless. I met the companies in which about five (!) CRM systems at the same time worked.

Mikhail Burmagin: Happens different, and happens also identical. It is difficult to believe in it, but it is real experience. One of customers after implementation of basic functionality decided that it needs to automate an add-on unit of tasks. Competition was as a result announced, and it was won by other company which offered architecture of separate CRM. Then the third wave of automation went, competition was won again by the new company and too solved assigned tasks in the form of separately installed solution. As a result there are three instans of CRM which are supported by three different companies and develop separately, but, meanwhile, are integrated among themselves.

TAdviser: Perhaps, there is a sense in trying to support the implemented system by own efforts and to save? Whether it is worth changing the company upon transition to a support phase, or it is fraught with risks?

Vladislav Anufriyev: In the beginning it is necessary to define requirements of customer company. If she is firmly convinced in the forces, then can support a system itself, but it is necessary to decide on it as soon as possible. I will try to explain. There is an implementation timebase: depending on the number of works at each stage, they go with different intensity and by the end of implementation gradually fade. If to be puzzled with a question of support only at a final stage, then it is possible to receive an unpleasant gap: a system already in a produktiva, data are saved, users face questions, i.e. de facto it works, and de jure, according to documents, is not put into operation yet. It is impossible to transfer her to support to the third party at this moment. It is that case when "where something is thin, that's where it tear". There is a probability that a system will begin to issue failures and reputation costs for business can be very big. Problems in a system should begin to be solved at once as soon as it begins to work. Not necessarily it should be specialized support: the main thing not to miss the moment that problems did not begin to be saved as a snowball. Figuratively speaking if it was possible to manage toothbrushing twice a day earlier, then then it is necessary to delete them.

TAdviser: Warning sounds.

Vladislav Anufriyev: Yes, CRM not all on teeth (laughs). I summarize: phases of implementation and operation should not be strongly carried on time. As soon as a system "began to breathe", earned and began to bring some benefit, it should have an exploiter. Let it is the customer, but he should be able to work and solve with it problems which arise. If it not so, without options specialists are necessary. Often customers come to such life hack: try to assign early support to implementers. In this place there is a misunderstanding between an implementation team and the customer: implementers "are simply "not ground" to work in such mode and with such SLA which business de facto begins to demand from them. At this stage often there is also an appeal to professional service companies. No, it is not obligatory for the same that conducted implementation, main that the contractor had the necessary competences.

Mikhail Burmagin: There can be a certain conflict of interest.

Vladislav Anufriyev: Yes, and for the customer very well when there is a conflict of interest between exploiters and implementers. In a sense, it is profitable to it. We, for example, in projects have in the company such conflict. Just because colleagues need to implement a system and to run further to build bright future (the quicker they will implement, the better), and we need to operate results of their work. Other criterion is important for us: the system is stabler and predictable, the it is less than incidents and problems will arise further. When we face in one project, the customer will be surely happy (laughs).

TAdviser: Now, when the level of competence and motivation of customers constantly grows what else typical difficulties can arise during the CRM projects and how to prevent them?

Mikhail Burmagin: The most important issue which arises at implementation of the CRM system is the question of volume of the implemented functionality. Systems capabilities are huge, but also expectations of customers are strongly overestimated in comparison with originally agreed volume. If the decision on use of additional functions is made on the project course, there is a risk to go beyond the set budget and time frames approved at all levels: it is very heavy to shift them afterwards.

The second problem at implementation of CRM systems is, strangely enough, an absence of the sponsor or main customer. In the large companies, customers already rather well understand what benefits they will be able to receive at implementation of CRM. But, alas, happens so that some companies consider CRM just fashionable trend, expecting at the same time from the project certain wow - effect. In such cases it is in addition necessary to work with the business strategy of the customer. If he does not understand that he wants, the task leaves difficult. When there is no internal customer, the project can actually "be lost": people at the level of analysts and contractors will drag it in different directions as a swan, cancer and a pike, and will turn out nothing.

The third problem – project, not important, there is a speech about CRM implementation, or not. The end result depends on aiming at result of both parties – customers and implementers. Quite often it is necessary to face that the customer selects for the project literally of several people who have not high competence of the specific direction, and shifts practically all responsibility for the end result to the contractor. Interaction with the third parties, completion, integration, implementation of end-to-end business processes, even development of original requirements without participation of specialists of the customer are simply impossible even at pro-active approach from the contractor.

TAdviser: And there are too motivated customers?

Mikhail Burmagin: Happen, however there are problems if the customer wants to implement all and at once. What does it lead to? At first requirements very long gather, the technical specifications are written then, within half a year the system prototype, and then, actually in a year after start is created, the customer says: "Guys, and at me in a year in general everything exchanged, all strategy. Let's remake all". It is possible to remake, but how many it is spent time and forces?. Here therefore we offer the strategy of fast victories: we select the most priority direction which automation can give benefit already in the near future, and we try to implement a system step by step. So not all project in one and a half years, and something in 5 months, something else in 2–3 months, something else through 3–4. Thus, we always are in current status on customer interaction, accurately we understand what moods at it, where there is a business. And at the same time we give the chance of the company to receive at once result at early stages, without waiting for start of all project.

TAdviser: In what advantage of ready-made "boxed" solutions? To whom do they suit, and to whom - are categorically contraindicated?

Mikhail Burmagin: In the market of SMB boxed solutions are rather relevant, and therefore actively move ahead vendors. We can offer customers ready functionality under certain business processes, but these are not absolutely shrink-wrapped software products in true understanding. That a system "began to breathe", it needs to be filled at least with data, and integration of a new system into corporate infrastructure of the customer for this purpose will be required. For example, often customer appeals are processed in CRM, and data of agreements are processed already in the back office systems of the customer. It is possible to unroll CRM and in 3–4 weeks, but it will be a little viable if not to create around it a complete landscape.

Nevertheless, our company has ready-made solutions, for example, for automation of work with arrears. It allows customers to save on rather big layer of works. In case of such approach it is possible to pass to works on integration at once that allows to provide rather fast result within 3–4 months. More "boxed" approach for clients of the enterprise level it is difficult to provide.

TAdviser: There are some standards on operation of the CRM system, SLA, standard solutions in this area?

Vladislav Anufriyev: Yes, but SLA can strongly differ depending on type of business and needs of the customer. There are customers with hundreds of users and millions of clients who demand permission of all incidents within 30 minutes. For mid-size companies also several hours of idle time can be not so critical. So the agreement on the service level is discussed always individually: the parameters put in it, of course, influence also service maintenance cost.

TAdviser: Whether often customers give support of systems on outsourcing?

Vladislav Anufriyev: Yes, but we have also an experience of projects of complete IT outsourcing: A good example – cooperation with the loyalty program of MALINES. Retail businesses of this kind grow very quickly, sometimes intermittently and sometimes to solve specific objectives of automation of business by it to have in a short time. For example, at start of one of programs we took on IT outsourcing all system – from the equipment to the application software. Then implemented for them the project on transition from an old unproductive CRM system to Oracle Siebel CRM. There are also other customers, but, unfortunately, we cannot reveal their names

One more good example – automation of the loyalty program by the LIKARD cards for Lukoil gas stations (these are more than 3600 refueling stations through the whole country). This project still is in implementation phase. Here we solve a problem completely too: from infrastructure providing and to a system output in produktiv. Requirements of customers in such projects very high: processing of a large number of transactions, a distributed network of retail outlets, increased requirements to operation, working capacity 24 on 7, the minimum downtime, it is easily possible to consider direct losses.

TAdviser: What main trends for the Russian market of CRM systems would you select?

Mikhail Burmagin: Recently rather actively the segment of cloud solutions develops. But in connection with features of the Russian legislation and requirements to information security and personal data protection, cross-border cloud solutions are not really popular in Russia. Clouds should be domestic. Our company can propose certain solutions in this part: we provide data storage at own capacities, i.e. IaaS.

If to speak about classical model of implementation of CRM, then in respect of functionality I would note the following. At the banks focused on retail clients owing to the economic reasons risks of delays therefore the functionality for collection agencies on work with arrears is demanded increased. Sale of banking services to corporate clients, especially attraction process is also demanded, and the CRM system just allows to automate process of long sellings. The third is an automation of programs of loyalty and marketing, relevant for retail.